Norman Finkelstein: 'Opening the Heart to the Suffering of Others'

By Nida Shakir

Norman Finkelstein is a Political Science professor at DePaul University in Chicago, having received his Ph.D. from Princeton University where he wrote his dissertation on Zionism. He is the author of many books, the most recent being, The Holocaust Industry: Reflections on the Exploitation of Jewish Suffering.

MWU!: How did you end up in academia?

Norman Finkelstein: I originally thought I would be a lawyer, defending the oppressed people of the world, but once I began to look at the subject matter of law, mainly the stuff I would have to learn, memorize, and digest it just didn’t grip me. I was more interested in other topics at the time. So I ended up, rather than law school, in graduate school. I thought after going to graduate school that I would be a left-wing theoretical journalist…that didn’t happen either. Mostly because of what was the left back then disappeared. So I started to teach and it came naturally to me because I’ve spent my time teaching in one way or another. It’s not much different teaching college students than it is teaching day care kids.

MWU!: Why did you choose to do your dissertation on Zionism?

Norman Finkelstein: I got publicly involved in the Israeli-Palestine conflict when Israel invaded Lebanon in June 1982 and I joined a little group called Jews against the Israeli Massacre in Lebanon. There was a question of whether or not members of this group were Zionist. I didn’t know what Zionism was, so since I always like to be intellectually clear [in what I take part of] I decided I should study up on it. So after studying up on it for a considerable period of time I figured why not turn it into my doctoral dissertation.

MWU!: What is your view of Ariel Sharon’s plan to pull out of Gaza?

Norman Finkelstein: I don’t think we should get bogged down in these debates. It only could be understood within the framework, and the framework is that Sharon, like other Israeli governments [before him] generally over the past thirty years, has been committed to keeping what is useful in the occupied territories and confining the Palestinians in those areas for which Israel has no use. They never wanted Gaza. So the fact that he’s “withdrawing from Gaza” is utterly meaningless. The Palestinians will get nothing out of it. Either the jailers will be on the outside or the inside, but it’s going to be a concentration camp.

MWU!: How should people deal with media distortions about the Middle East?

Norman Finkelstein: The media basically toes the line of the elites in our society. It says what the government wants them to say. They help promote official U.S. policy. One thing you can do is to work at establishing alternatives to the mainstream media. The most successful example in recent years, other than the Internet, which has been the main institutional alternative, the main programming alternative is Amy Goodman’s Democracy Now. She’s been a tremendous example of what a person with enough commitment and the right politics can do.

MWU!: Some would say that your views on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict are different from those of most people in the Jewish community. What do you think has influenced you?

Norman Finkelstein: There are two issues here. One is a personal one and one is a more general question. The personal one can be answered simply. My parents suffered during WWII, and they imparted to us lessons about the meaning of that suffering. I’m pretty close to my late parents’ moral perspective. As they say, the apple doesn’t fall far from the tree. On the other hand, I don’t think it’s entirely true to say that my views are so unusual among Jews. I know many Jews who work tirelessly in all sorts of ways to try and achieve justice. It’s really not an unusual phenomenon anymore.

MWU!: In a piece you wrote entitled Mideast in 15 Minutes, you stated that the main challenge for the Zionist movement was the indigenous population of Palestine. How so?

Norman Finkelstein: Pro-Israeli apologists in the U.S. still propagate the long-discredited myth that Palestine was empty on the eve of Zionist colonization. It’s sort of like the way Americans used to learn their history: the West was a “wilderness,” “virgin land,” etc. It was only beginning in the 1960s that most Americans discovered that there were Indians living here; American Jews haven't yet discovered that there were Palestinians living in Palestine.

MWU!: What do you think about Muslim-Jewish interfaith sessions?

Norman Finkelstein: From a political point of view, I don’t see the point of them. The issue is not religion. It’s politics. The basis for common agreement is not whether we have the same God, but whether we share the same basic principles of truth and justice.

MWU!: How do you feel about the US occupation in Iraq? Will the June 30th handover of sovereignty mark a real change for Iraqis?

Norman Finkelstein: If Bush really withdrew from Iraq, his whole point for going in would have failed. No one—except some university professors and media commentators—believe we went into Iraq to give them democracy. These people have yet to give Florida democracy. It was to control Iraq—and we won't leave until we’re kicked out.

MWU!: How should Muslims approach US politics?

Norman Finkelstein: If you’re a minority, you’ve got to win allies. The basis of this alliance is straightforward: the common interests shared by people denied their basic rights. Otherwise, Muslims don't need any instructions from me. There are lots of smart Muslims in the US who have a clear understanding of how this country works. The job is to tap the talent in your community.

MWU!: How do you respond towards criticism of your work?

Norman Finkelstein: If it’s criticism bearing on the substance of my argument, I have to listen. Of course I’m embarrassed when I’m caught making errors, but I fight the embarrassment and keep trying to remember that my main goal must be to be truthful. If the attacks are personal, I usually ignore them or answer with some humor.

MWU!: Should political issues be brought up on a college campus?

Norman Finkelstein: College students have combined more time, greater maturity, more idealism, and fewer responsibilities than any other group in society. It’s the best place to act on the great issues of the day.

MWU!: Who is your mentor, and why?

Norman Finkelstein: My late mother taught me the importance of opening my heart to the suffering of others. Noam Chomsky taught me how to think through my moral indignation and anger.